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on this new hour, blood bath at the rnc. with his sister-in-law in charge, trump solidifies his grip on the republican national committee with massive layoffs. could the hostile takeover backfire? and how his team is plotting to campaign from the courtroom. and my thoughts on this week's speech from senator schumer sending shock waves to israel and why i believe it came 30,000 lives too late. i'm ayman mohyeldin. let's do it. ♪♪ this week it was extremely maga makeover rnc edition. after locking in the republican presidential nomination, donald trump has now set his sights on remaking the republican national committee in his own image. on monday, the disgraced ex-president timed his grip on the party further, using his

newly installed rnc leadership team, which includes his daughter-in-law, to push out dozens of officials at the committee. more than 60 employees got the pink slip, including five members of the senior staff. trump's rnc also began implementing a complete overhaul of the committee's election operations. that includes shutting down all centers for minorities nationwide in california, new york, north carolina, tax. it was part of a yearslong effort by the rnc to encourage black, latino, native american and asian voters to join the republican party. with that operation now gone, a source told the daily beast the new committee's new tagline may as well be "make the rnc white again." it scrapped the gop's plans to encourage mail-in voting,

shuttering the bank your vote program. instead of motivating americans to vote for their candidate, the rnc has actually now chosen to double down on its election-related lawfare with trump's rnc establishing a so-called election integrity unit, led by christina baugh. the rnc is diverting funds from outreach and towards legal efforts that undercut our system and make it harder for americans to vote regardless of party. look, i'm no campaign expert, but this seems like exactly the opposite of what a party should be focusing on in a critical election year. under trump's eye, the gop has proved time and time again it is not a serious party focused on actually winning elections or promoting democracy. instead, it is merely an

extension of the ex-president's personal operation focused on avenging his grievances. while trump enjoys an almost unprecedented level of control over the national apparatus, quote, republicans willingness to bow to trump on nearly every issue is making their party staggeringly unpopular with voters. case in point, colorado republican congressman ken buck stunned capitol hill on tuesday, because buck, who already indicated he would not seek reelection in the fall shocked his colleagues by announcing he would leave his post next week. in an interview after the announcement, buck took aim directly at the ex-president, remarking, quote, everywhere i go in colorado i hear that people are not happy with trump. now, remember, this isn't some middle-of-the-road republican.

buck is a member of the ultra conservative house freedom caucus. it's a question of allegiance or fealty and what it means to be a republican in donald trump's gop. the disgraced ex-president has now become the sole decider of who does and does not fit inside his party's ever-shrinking tent. with us is rick wilson. also with us, hayes brown. great to have both of you with us. rick, trump allies told politico that the rnc overhaul is aimed at cutting so-called bureaucracy at the committee level. i've got to say this doesn't seem like the ex-president is in this for promoting democracy or trying to rebuild a healthy republican party. it's just the ex-president exercising his complete control over the apparatus of the

republican organization to exploit it for his own purposes, no? >> absolutely. what they've done is basically like a mafia bust out where they take over a business, they run up its bills so they can never be paid, and when they're done they burn the place down for the insurance money. you've seen the rnc fire their research staff, the communications staff, the political staff, the outreach staff. they've ended all the early voting programs, bank your vote programs, vote by mail programs. what's left is to put money into the trump crime family and ship it off to trump. this is now not a political party. it is a shell corporation set up to fund donald trump's legal defenses. and it is burning down 30 years -- whether you agree with the republican party or not, for 30 years they've built a machine

that wins a lot of elections. now trump has burned that to the ground for money. >> look, even if somebody who's not a republican doesn't care for the republican party, you need a healthy party apparatus to have a functioning democracy in america. with that gone, you're left with just one real party and a shell corporation. the other part of this is how much of this moment, of this exercise is a glimpse into the future if donald trump wins, foreshadowing what donald trump would do to the american government if, in fact, he, his cronies, his kids, his children, everyone where in power once again? >> the the mystery of jared and ivanka while they were working in government, having their net worth increase by hundreds of millions of dollars, the mystery of jared kushner getting a $2 billion venture capital deal the second he was out the door from the white house, trump's

willingness to turn nato into a pay-for-play protection racket. the grift and the autocracy and the basically converting the u.s. government into a giant scam for trump is a preview of what we will see day one. it should not surprise anyone. this has always been a guy who, if he found a dollar on the floor of a bathroom and had to pick it up with his mouth, he'd do it. this guy wants money more than anything else in the world. >> the rnc is now fully embracing trump's election lies. . they've established this so-called election integrity unit led by christina bobb, who wrote a book pushing the big lie. how dangerous is it to have a figure like that on the committee's payroll? >> i mean, first of all, i'm so old that i remember the 2012 autopsy in the rnc when after mitt romney lost to barack

obama, the rnc said down and said how do we expand? how do we get more people to vote for us? i've watched as every recommendation in that autopsy has been put to the side in favor of just making sure donald trump is happy and making sure he is able to endorse your candidates even if his endorsement doesn't mean that much. the fact that the rnc is putting someone like christina bobb into this position is really stressing how much they've decided to go to leave the actual job of connecting with voters to democrats. the fact that they don't really see much of a purpose in trying to convince people to vote for them at this point, basically their entire argument boils down to he is not a democrat, he is trump, that's it. as long as someone is not a democrat and supports trump, that is the basis for getting

support of the rnc at this point. putting christina bobb in this position is sure to really tank any outreach efforts, any sort of real election integrity work, making sure people can get to ballots and cast their vote, that is not going to happen. >> to quote "succession" these are not serious people put in these positions. i want to play for you this sound from trump today at a rally. we try to avoid playing any trump sound, but this was particularly vile. he was railing about the impact of president biden's policies on the automotive industry. then he made this very bizarre remark. listen. >> if i don't get elected, it's going to be a blood bath for the country. that will be the least of it. >> so, you know, the trump

campaign has since said his remarks were referring to biden's policies surrounding imported cars. i'm not sure i believe that, but nonetheless we'll take them at their word for it. what do you make of that type of rhetoric where he is using that kind of language in this election season already? >> let's not forget this is a man who sent a violent mob to hang his vice president. >> right. >> this is a man who has embraced a number of the violent groups that support him, the oath keepers, 3%ers, proud boys, all those folks. the old joke of you have to take trump seriously but not literally, that's a mistake. you must take trump literally. that's the one campaign promise i think you can guarantee trump will keep, that there will be bloodshed if he doesn't get his way. it's something americans will have to reckon with and understand sooner than later that when trump is making these threats, there are millions and millions of his supporters who don't look at it as a rhetorical

flourish or a funny remark, they look at it as marching orders. it's incumbent upon everyone in the country, including a lot of republican elected officials who will not, but should decry this kind of rhetoric. >> i believe donald trump when he says he'll be a dictator from day one, unleash the military on protesters, use the insurrection act and a lot more. we've also heard in this rally trump ratcheting up his anti-immigrant rhetoric on the topic of immigrants accused of committing crimes. he said, quote, i don't know if you call them people. in some cases, they're not people, in my opinion. he's not just referring to those that are committing crimes. he's trying to use that to paint an entire group of people the way he did when he came down that escalator announcing his run for the first time where he called mexicans raists and

killers. >> there's been no sort of consequences for donald trump using this kind of rhetoric, not that we've seen for him personally electorally. yes, he did lose in 2020, but the fact he has swept through these primaries even with the amount of opposition we've seen from republican primary voters continually voting for nikki haley or trying to get someone else in the mix, trump is continuing to double down on this rhetoric, having had no real pushback from anyone in any position to check him. he didn't have any pushback from the rnc. they continue to fund his campaign in 2016 and 2020 and now. he had no pushback from his fellow elected officials or at least very little pushback from them, those who remain in office at least. you mentioned ken buck earlier stepping down. part of the transformation we're seeing in the republican party

is the ones like buck who are unable to take the chaos anymore and stepping aside, what i'm worried about is who is going to step up to replace them? who is going to be in the hall of congress, and what are they going to be willing to let trump get away with? >> panel, please stick around. after the break, how team trump is not objecting to campaigning from the courtroom. first, my friend richard louis is here with a breaking news update. >> breaking news from new jersey to tell you about. police saying a triple murder suspect is in custody after a multistate hours-long manhunt. he started this morning near philadelphia. suspect andre gordon shot and killed his stepmother and 13-year-old sister. then he drove to a nearby home where he shot and killed a woman, the mother of their two children. after that, he carjacked someone in a store parking lot, drove to nearby trenton, new jersey. there he held multiple hostages inside a home. later authorities were able to

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there's one thing donald trump does know how to do. it is how to sell a lemon. it is no shock that the self-proclaimed law and order candidate reportedly plans to

gaslight the american people from the courtroom. nbc news now reports trump advisors plan to counter his heavy trial schedule by trying to portray president biden as someone attempting to, quote, imprison his political opponents. a rather hypocritical approach by the very man who made "lock her up" a mantra of his 2016 campaign. trump's campaign also plans to muddy the waters between trump's and biden's legal proms, create counter programming events focused on policy and push to delay the trials as long as possible. the question is, will it work? even those carrying out the plan aren't sure. indictments are not ideal, we would rather he not be in court, but there will be an attempt to make lemonade out of lemons here, republicans say. is this turning lemons into lemonade like trump's team is arguing here? is it likely to work? or it doesn't matter for his voters?

they like a criminal and he's leaning into it. >> they do like a criminal. they enjoy the image of trump as some sort of martyr. everyone who's influenced by that decision by the campaign to do this is already a trump voter. anyone who believes that trump is some sort of martyr at the hands of the nefarious biden campaign or administration is already a trump voter. for the rest of american voters, there is no amount of mayonnaise in the universe to turn this chicken you know what into chicken salad. this is a desperate strategy by desperate people. i don't think it's going to convince a single swing voter or move a single democrat over to trump, especially because what they seem to forget is we will be hearing the evidence of trump's ongoing pattern of criminality every single day. it won't just be, oh, they're mean to me, what about hunter's laptop? it will be talking about donald trump illegally stealing classified documents. it will be talking about trump

engaging in fraud. it will be talking about donald trump engaging in malfeasance at all levels. look, it plays to their base, but their base is already in trump's pocket. >> to that point, the republicans are doing their part. you also have trump's team saying part of this campaign strategy is to counter the democrats' line of attack about the ex-president being a threat to democracy, which is what donald trump actually is to our country. you have a trump advisor telling nbc, hard to say we're a threat to democracy when you are trying to imprison your political opponents. the question becomes, does it work to bring joe biden into the mud with donald trump? because that's what republicans are trying to do here with these scam impeachment hearings on the hill, with all the other stuff they're trying to do. they're just trying to make the bidens look like trump. is that an effective strategy for this election for donald trump and his surrogates? >> i don't believe so. i don't think that there's enough "there" there to make

this work. the second you are willing to go beyond the, oh, well, joe biden has legal problems, the second you start to go beyond that level, you realize there is nothing there. so trump and his surrogates are going to keep repeating it and repeating it so that it gets lodged in people's heads. for an unfortunately large number of voters, that will work. like rick said, those people were probably already going to vote for trump anyway. in terms of trying to get independence back on board, i really don't see that being the case. the campaign is going to be putting trump when he's not on trial during the week doing more policy-focused events on the weekends. that's a great idea, but when has donald trump ever been able to sit through anything remotely serious without delving into the issues that turn off most voters? >> messaging discipline is not something donald trump is known

for. up next, senator schumer's rebuke of benjamin netanyahu's leadership, calling for change thousands of lives too late. , ce thousands of lives too late. (man) excuse me, would you mind taking a picture of us? (tony) oh, no problem. (man) thanks. (tony) yes, problem. you need verizon. get the new iphone 15 pro with tons of storage. so you can take all the pics! (vo) trade-in any iphone in any condition and get a new iphone 15 pro and an ipad and apple watch se all on us. only on verizon.

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in 2015, israel's prime minister at the time who actually happens to be the same one now, benjamin netanyahu, visited the united states and gave an address to a joint session of congress. the purpose of that speech was to undermine what would become a cornerstone policy of then-president obama, who at the time was forging ahead with an iran nuclear deal. netanyahu basically came to the u.s. congress, told the american people and their representatives, your president is wrong, his policy is wrong, and i'm here to tell you i am right. as far as political postuing goes, the speech was perceived as an insult to the obama

administration and by extension his sitting vice president joe biden. sitting in the chamber in the front row was senator chuck schumer, who ended up voting against the deal, basically siding with netanyahu over his ownparty's leader and the obama/biden administration. you'd think that would have stayed with now president joe biden. he would have learned about netanyahu's willingness to turn on a u.s. president so publicly, you'd think. surprisingly, this wasn't even the only time. then-vice president joe biden appeared to be personally humiliated upon arriving in israel at the time when netanyahu announced the construction of 1600 new jewish settlements in occupied east jerusalem. before israel's general election, netanyahu made a blatant appeal to right-wing voters and said he would never

establish a palestinian state if reelected, yet again openly defying and undercutting the obama/biden administration. after a sweeping victory in the 2022 elections, netanyahu, who was facing serious allegations of corruption returned to power and plunged israel into an existential democratic crisis. in early 2023, he launched an effort to overhaul the judiciary, including weakening the supreme court of israel and allowing the government to overturn decisions it did not like. and the proposed reforms were viewed as authoritarian, and they sparked the biggest political crisis in israel's history. in fact, hundreds of thousands of israelis protested netanyahu's anti-democratic agenda, calling for him to step down. world leaders did too, including joe biden himself. he warned netanyahu against moving forward with the plan. but guess what? netanyahu defied joe biden and america and did it anyway. and he did it with the backing

of none other than senator chuck schumer, who visited israel in 2023 and promised netanyahu that he would continue to have the, quote, fullest support of the u.s. senate. so you can imagine the shock waves that must have ripped through the israeli prime minister's office on thursday, when chuck schumer went on the senate floor and said this. >> prime minister netanyahu has lost his way by allowing his political survival to take the precedence over the best interests of israel. nobody expects prime minister netanyahu to do the things that must be done to break the cycle of violence, to preserve israel's credibility on the world stage and to work towards a two-state solution. i believe that holding a new election, once the war starts to wind down, would give israelis an opportunity to express their vision for the post-war future. >> the truth is, we should have never gotten to this point.

schumer's comments should have been the message on day one of the war. instead, it comes more than 30,000 palestinian and 1100 israeli lives too late. netanyahu's handling of the october 7th terrorist attacks and the subsequent war has been putting it lightly extraordinarily questionable. despite his government's intelligence failures and botched response on october 7th, despite his conduct of the war and plausible genocide, despite his government blocking aid from entering the gaza strip, a move experts say constitutes a war crime, despite his plans to invade rafah in defiance of joe biden and knowing that humanitarian catastrophe it would unleash, despite all of this, the biden administration has stood by benjamin netanyahu, embraced him publicly and refused to call for a permanent cease-fire. all the while, weapons from the u.s. continued to flow into israel and the u.s. has continued to protect israel

diplomatically at the united nations. it's also important to note that schumer's call for new elections in israel is not official u.s. policy. if you're thinking that demand is being upheld by the democratic party or even joe biden himself, it is not. that demand is coming from one u.s. senator, an important senator but it is still just from one senator in the democratic party. look, the bottom line is that netanyahu has been playing joe biden and democratic presidents and leaders for a very long time. the fact that he has been in a place to carry out the atrocities and plausible genocide against the people of gaza and in israel's name with the full unconditional backing of this administration on the world stage is a failure that falls squarely on the shoulders of joe biden. it's a good and important first step that chuck schumer has finally broken with netanyahu, and now it is on president biden to step up and stand up to

benjamin netanyahu once and for all. otherwise, he risks being hue humiliated by the israeli leader even more. this time, it may cost joe biden his own election against donald trump and with it american democracy as well. we'll be right back. american democracy as well. we'll be right back. it's time. yes, the time has come for a fresh approach to dog food. everyday, more dog people are deciding it's time to quit the kibble and feed their dogs fresh food from the farmer's dog. made by vets and delivered right to your door precisely portioned for your dog's needs. it's an idea whose time has come. ♪♪

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joining me now to discuss is peter binart. great to see you again. i'll start broadly speaking here and just get your response to senator schumer's speech and his critique of netanyahu. what do you think are the forces who brought schumer, who has a long and cozy relationship with netanyahu to this point of departure or breaking point? >> it's because the forces have shifted inside the democratic party because of grassroots changes that are happening, particularly among young people. as you said, chuck schumer is not on the left end of the spectrum when it comes to foreign policy and with israel in particular. this is a guy who opposed barack obama's iran nuclear deal. yet, in this speech he's now essentially talking about the possibility of conditioning military aid to israel. that shows how dramatic the shift inside the democratic

party has been just in the last six months. up until six months ago, there was only one senator, bernie sanders who was even considering this on the far left of the senate democratic party. now chuck schumer who's in the center right of the party is taking this position. it shows really how much public opinion is now starting to move democrats in congress. >> i guess in some ways you can make the argument that chuck schumer realized that benjamin netanyahu is not worth the risk of, a, losing power for him, but more importantly, potentially for the president to lose power and as a result of that lose american democracy if donald trump wins the election. do you think joe biden is making that same political calculation that you just outlined that chuck schumer was able to get to faster, or are the forces different for the president and what he has to take into consideration? >> i hope so. i think joe biden learned the wrong lesson from barack obama. the lesson he learned from

barack obama after obama had a conflict with netanyahu early in his presidency over settlement expansion was basically don't pick a fight for the israeli leader because you can't win. the problem is that things have shifted inside the democratic party, and this subject is so big that the slaughter in gaza is so massive that you can't just sweep it under the rug or hope that benjamin netanyahu of his own accord is going to end this war. benjamin netanyahu has a political incentive to continue the war. his prosecution of the war is rightly producing massive outrage inside the democratic party. i hope that joe biden realizes that he can't continue to wait or ask politely for benjamin netanyahu to do these things. he has to pursue a different strategy. i think schumer is suggesting the beginnings of what that alternative strategy might look like. >> let's talk about the optics of this for a moment. you have schumer, who is the top-ranked jewish official in

the united states, a powerful politician within the m theic democratic partying saying netanyahu is an obstacle to peace. these critiques are coming five month into a war that has killed over 30,000 people in gaza. >> right. obviously this is coming way too late for all of the people in gaza who have been killed, who have been forced out of their homes. there were people on the left end of the democratic party saying right from the beginning that this war was going to be catastrophic for the people of gaza and would not ultimately make israel safer, because you don't make israel safer by killing that number of people who were then going to want revenge against you after seeing their family members killed or starved to death. a lot of people were saying that from the beginning and weren't taken seriously. it's kind of cold comfort to see schumer taking this position now. but the speech reflects the fact

that he is having to answer people he never answered before. one fascinating part of the speech is he devoted four or five paragraphs to telling young people, who he acknowledged idealistically, he says this is the wrong way to go. even a year ago a democratic senator like schumer would never have even had to answer that argument, because it was considered too radical. it suggests how the conversation has moved. >> in that conversation moving, how much do you attribute that to what we saw play out in places like michigan with the uncommitted vote, in places where it's not street protests and discourse happening, whether on social media or in political circles, it is a result of a political machination producing uncommitted voters in states like michigan, washington, minnesota and elsewhere. >> yes. and the fact that joe biden, a democratic president, can't go speak on a college campus or to a black church without the possibility of being disrupted,

that is a big problem. this is your base. this movement for palestinian liberation is becoming a successor to the movements against the vietnam war, against the apartheid of south africa. it's people from all backgrounds, including many, many jewish people and especial young people who are coming together around a set of principles that they don't want the u.s. government to be doing this to people. that is going to transform the democratic party for, i think, generations to come. >> do you think that this speech from chuck schumer could have happened without the white house winking and nodding to it? because it does put the president in a rather precarious position, right? there's no doubt this now shifts it from the senate and perhaps congress to reaction from joe biden to follow suit. do you think this could have happened without joe biden winging and nodding to chuck

schumer to go ahead and signal that it's time for netanyahu to go? >> i doubt it. i mean, i think this gives biden the opportunity, the kind of political cover to move towards this position himself. now, the problem, of course, is that the irony about israel's government is that it's super unpopular. because it's unpopular, the different coalition forces don't want to go to elections, because they know they're going to get creamed in the elections. that's the problem. but america has a lot of leverage. often american presidents, joe biden in particular, don't like to talk about that, but it's true. we have tremendous leverage. we are giving israel many of these weapons and providing israel diplomatic cover so they're not held accountable in diplomatic institutions. >> what do you expect to see from others going forward, either within the democratic

party, other u.s. officials, maybe from the white house or the state department in the coming days and weeks as this call gets louder and louder? >> i think where we're going is towards a growing democratic incentive around the idea of some form of conditioning military aid to israel. this is really historic. no president has been willing to do that since george h.w. bush in the early '90s. it's been like 30 years. but the amount of slaughter, the horror that israel has now created in gaza after the massacre on october 7th is pushing the democrats in that position. i think the biden administration is moving slowly toward that position, and i'm quite confident that the next democratic president, the next generation of democratic leaders will be firmly in that position and no going back. >> thank you so much. great to talk to you.

a quick programming note. tomorrow on "meet the press," an exclusive interview with nathan wade following his resignation from the case in fulton county. moderator kristen welker will speak with celebrity chef jose andres of world central kitchen to discuss aid to gaza. l kitche to discuss aid to gaza

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it is time for our worst of the week. the political outliers edition. we have independent candidate robert f. kennedy jr. yes, he is still running. he confirmed he'll announce his running mate on march 26th. he previewed his short list, which included nfl quarterback aaron rodgers, who he referred to as, quote, battle tested. you probably know rodgers and not just because of his failed

season with the jets. he's also the unofficial captain of the "do your own research" club with a history of spreading anti-vaccine conspiracy theories. kennedy is now planning to tip nicole shanahan, a california-based attorney and entrepreneur as his running mate following concerns from donors over aaron rodgers. next up, the pure chaos that is the no-labels third party movement. they lost gop governor pat mccrory despite saying they were going to move forward sometime after super tuesday. despite the fact that they've said they could unveil their candidate next week, their potential choices are democratic senator joe manchin and larry hogan have passed on that role. as far as nikki haley, who made clear she would not join a

no-labels bid. rick and hayes are back with me to decide this week's winner. who are you going with, rfk junior or no labels? >> no labels is the long time fan favorite of chaos and destruction. essentially what no labels is going to do is split the race and give it to donald trump. no matter who their candidate is, their objective is to reelect donald trump. they are funded and staffed by republicans. they are definitely going to move forward with someone even though they've never met any of the standards they claimed were required to run a campaign. they're not on enough ballots to get to 270. they don't have a popular nominee. everything they've done has been built on a lie and all benefits donald trump in the end. they are my loser of the week. >> hayes, who's your pick here between rfk junior and no

labels? to some extent, don't they end up producing the same result? >> i mean, in theory, but here's the thing. i'm going with no labels. same answer, different reasons. they're the worst, not because they will successfully be able to run a candidate who siphons off enough votes to make donald trump win. i can't believe they are actually going to be a candidate. for all of their declarations, they've said they are going to have a committee look for a candidate and make a recommendation to another no labels committee to approve them. it's stalling, and they are just not going to have any impact this year. rfk might somehow have an impact on this race. i do not believe no labels will actually. let's go to round two in

this match. another pair of political outliers. we have indicted senator bob menendez considering running as an independent. he's up against george santos, running for office in a different district. he's running against a republican who voted to expel him. who's winning this round? >> it's got to be menendez. this guy is a poster child for corruption. he is lavishly and obviously exploiting his office for gold bars and cars and whatever else that keeps turning up. he has got to go. george santos is a clownish figure. he has actually a chance of winning in new york one because the magas love him no matter what. i think menendez is a much darker and more sinister and truly corrupt individual at a

scale that the senate should absolutely purge out of its ranks. >> hayes, there's a playbook that it seems like menendez might be following. it seems he can only fund raise if he's on the ballot to pay his legal bills. is that going to work? >> it very well might. he has cratered in terms of his popularity in new jersey. it's the only way he's going to be able to run as an independent. i'm going to give my worst of the week to george santos. both of them, the audacity is incredible. for george santos to still be trying to make a comeback, the fact that we're even talking about him right now really speaks to, i think, his overall vision of what it is to be successful. he is moving forward with that in a way that, yes, it's clownish, yes, he does have a chance to win. i feel like it's more of an indictment on us more broadly to

say that george santos is the rest of the week. >> when you say on us, who exactly is the us here? >> i mean, i'm included in the us in that i am entertained and confused be think man. i don't want him to succeed, but it's nice to see him fail. that sort of thing, i feel bad about that. yeah, i'm going to give that to him. >> rick, you wanted to say something? >> it's looking very much like john addlove is going to be competitive in that seat. if it's george santos, i think it will be an absolute wipeout. i think he's got a very good chance to beat either one in that district. the fact that santos is doing it

shows you the chaos that maga brings into every one of these races. >> let me ask you about rfk junior. it seems as he becomes more fringe, if he goes down this crazy hole of conspiracy theorists like aaron rodgers and others, does that actually work to joe biden's favor that he would siphon off some of the even more crazy loonies of the trump campaign who see somebody like rfk really as no longer part of the establishment in the way that trump has become? what do you think, rick? >> i think that rfk poses a risk to trump, because of the anti-vax stuff. think about what he represents. he's anti-vaccine. he's a crypto bro. he's part of this conspiracy world. i think there's a definite area in which rfk draws out of the trump pool of voters, but he

also normalizes insanity into our political mainstream even more than trump has on some levels, because there is still a weird political disposition of many people in this country to say, oh, the kennedy name, it's a serious family. he's a very dark force in the election. >> thank you to the both of you. greatly appreciated your time and insights throughout this hour. make sure to come back tomorrow night, 7:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. i'm ayman mmohyeldin. good night. hyemohyeldin. good night arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. rsv can be serious for those over 60, including those with asthma, diabetes, copd, and certain other conditions. but i'm protected. arexvy is proven to be over 82% effective

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